Sagebrush
20 posts
Dec 19, 2009
11:01 AM
|
Everyone you talk to in the BPCR shooting game will most generally discuss tweeking their load to improve their accuracy. They will tell you how well the load did on paper at 100 yards, then come time to shoot a match the load failed!
Here's the BPCR shooting seen by Harlan...........
Loading for a 40-65, 45-70 and 45-90 is about as easy as falling of a log. As long as you use quality componants and have a lead free barrel and a properly operating rifle you can stuff about anything in them and it will do quite well. Once the machanics are in place you need to work on the big problem, "the Nut behind the butt". There are so many factors that the shooter will do or not do on the firing line that will sling bullets all over the place.
Here's where I want to get the topic rolling. Lets discuss all the little thing to improve shooting not reloading.
1. position
2. breathing
3. grip
4. sight picture
5. when to touch the trigger
6. follow through, follow through, follow through
7. blow tube or wiping, or the unforgiven smokeless
Who would like to get started? Tell us about your experiences
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Kurt
14 posts
Dec 20, 2009
9:21 AM
|
Ok Harlan since it's a little slow here I would like to take up #4 because that is my #1 problem and it really affects my shooting.
My Problem is the floater in my vision that blocks more than 1/2 of the spot, white or black, on the target and it seems to move that spot worse than any Nebraska mirage will. More so when light changes.
I know that this reply is not what your intent is with your post here but to get this started I would like to get some help with this from others that also have this problem with aging eyesight.
You are right that load tweaking is not as much of a problem since most of the gong shoots and silhouettes are at least a 2 MOA target and it's the list of 7 that most of us are having trouble with.
Kurt
|
knobsmt
2 posts
Dec 20, 2009
4:03 PM
|
#4 a clean nice painted target is nice to shoot them gray lead splatterd ones are what i have trouble with .. the diamond at the Q is always gray when i get to shoot it ..but thats the fun of the game !!
|
Kurt
16 posts
Dec 20, 2009
5:54 PM
|
Just forget that diamond LOL. aim at the center of the dark impact area like I do LOL
Kurt
|
Don McDowell
15 posts
Dec 21, 2009
9:32 PM
|
Did I mention I got that diamond all 8 rounds??????
That rectangle was shot to bejeebers and then they painted it. It showed up better in the dim light under the clouds all shot up.....
Being able to clearly make out the target helps a bunch.
|
Kurt
17 posts
Dec 22, 2009
11:29 AM
|
What we need to do is put Harlan behind those targets that get plastered and have him run around after every sixth shot and paint the splatters.
Of course we will put a cement block behind the target so he wont get hit in the foot from a low shot.
|
charles mulhair
6 posts
Dec 23, 2009
6:53 PM
|
What was the yardage for the diamond? I only had one hit on the 500 yd., and missed the first two on the 645. Then Kurt grabed my rifle and moved the windaqe and I hit the next 5 straight but missed the 8th. It is folly to wish time away when one has so little of it left, but I can't help looking forward to Alliance in May.
|
charles mulhair
7 posts
Dec 23, 2009
6:55 PM
|
What was the yardage for the diamond? I only had one hit on the 500 yd., and missed the first two on the 645. Then Kurt grabed my rifle and moved the windaqe and I hit the next 5 straight but missed the 8th. It is folly to wish time away when one has so little of it left, but I can't help looking forward to Alliance in May.
|
Don McDowell
16 posts
Dec 23, 2009
8:24 PM
|
380 on the diamond
|
Sagebrush
23 posts
Dec 24, 2009
1:06 PM
|
Kurt, about the floaters, is there anything that can be done, surgically or other.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Kurt
18 posts
Dec 24, 2009
7:58 PM
|
Harlan I have talked to my eye Doctor about this very thing and this is what he said.
Yes I can clean them out but chances are you will be in worse shape than you are now. But they are developing techniques that will soon be used. But he didn't go into what that would be.
Kurt
|
Kurt
19 posts
Dec 25, 2009
7:27 AM
|
Well Harlan it looks like nobody wants to start with this.
You are a very good shooter, why don't you put your input into this.
I would like to pick your Brain on this.
I will say one more thing about sight picture.
The light will play a big factor as far as high or low impact on the target. Low sun, high sun, left or right sun plus the back ground shadows that will change the bullet strike with out a sight change.
Kurt
|
Sagebrush
27 posts
Dec 27, 2009
10:06 AM
|
Hi Kurt,
I will give it a whirl. Seems that some days the high low sun make a big affect and some days it doesn't. I don't think it is neccessarily all about the light that makes the big affect but the mirage that comes and goes with the sun that does. That's why its never the same. depending on what the mirage is doing when the sun is up and then suddenly covered by a cloud. This is why you just cannot hold sun up sight up or sun down sight down. I use a very small sight shading movements when the sun is in and out of the clouds.
When it comes to shadows behind the target, it mades thing a little more difficult. It take alot of concentration on sight picture. it takes more than just centering the target in your sight, you need to look at different points or parts of the target and how it appears in the sight. I'll give you an example: A few years ago I was shooting with my Wyoming buddies at the Billy Dixon shoot in Utah. The targets were terrible, they were made of soft steel and were caved in like a cup. The 900 yard target was bad, I mean really bad. When I started shooting that target I could see the entire target, but it got bad very fast. By my last few shots I could only see about the top fourth of the target or less. I had to position it in in my sight as if I could still see the whole thing by holding the portion that I could see in the top part of the sight appiture. I hit them all.
My next comment may sound a little unfriendly, but it is true. When shooting in a match to do your very best, it takes one spotter and one shooter team. It takes alot of focus and concentration on what you are doing and be in a zone with the conditions. What I mean here is when you and your spotter are helping everyone else on the firing line, you lose that complete zone or focus. Just like playing in any other sport, you have to focus on your team effort "being in a zone". When I'm shooting, the only thing I pay attention to of the other shooters is where their smoke is going and how the conditions affected them (as long as they are a good shooter). However, I will help the other shooters by telling them if a condition change helped or hurt me.
I hope this helps and I would like to get others input in this topic.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Kurt
21 posts
Dec 27, 2009
1:52 PM
|
I agree with you on one on one. A lot of times it gets very confusing for me to hear three people if I hear them giving me three different impacts. I try to tune out every one but my Wife but at times she will not see the strike of the bullet on the first shot, the and second is the one that is the most important one to get on center of the target and if she says didn't see it I will listen for a call.
And when I'm watching if I'm asked I will not say where it went unless asked or I see a wrong call.
A couple years ago at your match I saw a bullet strike the close rectangle by a gal and dust kicked up off to the left and that call was called by a spotter that watched for every one on the string but I saw the strike on the very edge and I called hit. It made me feel uneasy to contradict her but it was a hit.
Kurt
|
Sagebrush
33 posts
Jan 02, 2010
8:07 AM
|
Kurt,
Like I said, I have no problem and always want to help other shooter and I want to see other shooters do well. But, I don't want to loose my focus on my game and my partners game.
Many times, actually, at most shoots, when I see a shooter that is struggling really bad, I want to take them off to the side and quiz them on their load and what they are doing on the firing line, but I don't want to sound like some Know-it-all. At my last Sagebrush Match there was a guy that had only 1 or 2 hits on the first day. He is about 45 - 50 years old and physically capable of shooting well. Now come on, you can close your eyes and count on luck for more hits than that. I really want to help these shooters to do better and enjoy what they are doing.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
buffalocannon
1 post
Jan 05, 2010
8:47 AM
|
Harlan, I wholeheartedly agree with all you wrote initially. Most of us have good equipment today, and know how to load an accurate rifle. It all comes down to the shooter. For myself, 99 percent of the time, I know when I'm going to miss when I pull the trigger! Grip, breathing, sight picture etc., all those things! A lot of us, myself included, are prone to blame the wind, the light etc. But.....when it's nut-crackin' time, it all comes down to the shooter. I remember a match many years ago where it started snowing. I lost all concentration and felt relieved that I was now a "victim" of the weather and had an excuse for a low score. The match winner however had twice as many hits as I had! The snow didn't seem to bother him any! Harlan, Looking forward to seeing you in August! Steve
|
Sagebrush
35 posts
Jan 05, 2010
7:35 PM
|
Hi Steve
Good to hear from you. You know, all year I hear from shooters how this or that was the reason for there low scores, and some could be those reasons but most of the time it is the nut behind the butt. I have been that nut many times.
However, there is one particular issue that can completely throw accuracy all over the side hill. That is lead build up in the barrel. I have dealt with shooters that tell me they know the load is good, and they feel they are doing everything right, but still poor scores. It a lot of convincing to two friends that they need to get the lead out. They said, "oh no, I have a clean barrel" Finally I got them to clean and scrub to my instructions and they came back to me and admitted that they removed a lot of lead. Lead builds up over time and thats the lead problem that is hard to remove. These two friends just couldn't believe how much better their rifle shot after the mining of lead.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Don McDowell
30 posts
Jan 05, 2010
8:17 PM
|
Harlan the leading problem is a nasty bugger, that you don't really know you have until you do some seriuos lead mining.
I find alot of times getting into position comfortably will make the number of hits go up. If a person feels bound or tight someplace it's going to take part of your concentration from the sight picture. If you can't fully concentrate on sight picture and trigger control , the shot will be a miss or not a good solid hit it should be.
|
Kurt
29 posts
Jan 05, 2010
10:24 PM
|
Grip.
I have to chuckle a bit on this one.
More than once the left hand twist in my .50 told me to wake up when it's cold and the hand is dry made check to see if I still have some teeth in my mouth.LOL.
Grip will throw off a shot about as much as anything.
To much thumbing or too much trigger finger will throw the shot too 3 o'clock for a right hander.
Too little 9 o'clock.
Breaking the wrist down will make a hit low.
Jerking the trigger low left.
Here is the big one. The anticipating recoil a lot of guys shooting a large caliber have an unconscious habit doing this.
Pushing with the shoulder or no follow through will break the shot high and left around 10 o'clock. Tightening the grip while your pulling the trigger will break low and right around 5 o clock.This is what causes most of the oblique stringing.
Healing is another anticipation of recoil making a shot break high and right 2 o'clock.
Anticipating recoil I think is the biggest killer of accuracy and most of that the guy behind the but plate dont even knows that he is doing it unless he tripped the sear with a hammer at halve cock and then he wont admit it.
Kurt
|
buffalocannon
Guest
Jan 06, 2010
6:54 AM
|
Lead, Yes. Harlan, What's the quickest way on the firing line to check your barrel for leading?
|
Sagebrush
37 posts
Jan 07, 2010
4:35 PM
|
Steve,
Leading can be difficult to see in the barrel anytime. I don't know for sure and I've never tried it but, maybe before blow tubing, push a dry tight patch down the barrel and see what comes out.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Don McDowell
34 posts
Jan 07, 2010
8:30 PM
|
I've found if you really want to know if there's lead in there, push a tight patch soaked with puregum spirits of turpentine thru on a jag. Something about the turpentine makes the patch grab the lead, you'll actually feel it catch. When the patch comes out there'll be silver.....
|
rafterj
Guest
Jan 12, 2010
8:46 AM
|
One item that I didn't see above is "Natural Point of Aim" If you dobn't pay attention to where the sights point naturally when you relax into your shooting position, you may be simply aiming the rifle off target to start with. After you initially set the sticks, go into the rifle with eyes closed, find the comfortable position you would have fired from, then open the eyes. Adjust any sighting errors by adjusting the sticks in such a manner that the rifle is naturally pointed to your desired aiming point. If you set the sticks, lay the rifle on the sticks, then muscle the rifle over, or up or down, onto target, your inducing error from the git go. Also, are your sticks square to the target, or are they cocked?
|
Sagebrush
39 posts
Jan 12, 2010
6:42 PM
|
Raftj,
You are absolutly right and I can't believe I forgot about that at the beginning. I use that same procedure when shooting offhand especially. While setting up for offhand I do the relaxing to get my natural point of aim and turn a foot and close or open my stance, then I don't move my feet until I leave the line. This is very important in the sitting position as well. Sometimes it takes me awhile to squirrel around on my butt to get the aim right.
Harlan
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
Al Livingstone
1 post
Jan 21, 2010
10:31 PM
|
Hi there guys. I have a question concerning sight picture and aperture size. What I'm shooting with now have aperture sizes of .080 & .100 with a ring width of .030 on four .010 crosswires. The ring seems to
blur or fuzz out a lot of the time. I realize this
will be shooter specific, but is there a more commonly
used heavier ring? Is it of any advantage? Thanks for
the help!
Al
|
buffalocannon
9 posts
Feb 02, 2010
9:07 AM
|
Al, Since I purchased one of those Magnum MVA Hadleys, my old eyeballs do a lot better. I find that I don't change apertures during a match nearly as much as I did. Cataract surgery in the future will further assist me!
|
Al Livingstone
4 posts
Feb 06, 2010
10:48 AM
|
BC, thanks for the input. At present I'm using a regular size Hadley and the Magnum will no doubt sheild or block out more surrounding light making for a better sight picture if I'm understanding you right.
I know what you mean about old eyeballs. I can see things far away pretty good as long as they're up close! Getting old isn't too bad, it is the darn mileage that leaves marks on a man. Thanks again.
Al
|
Single Six 1954
1 post
Feb 17, 2010
6:13 AM
|
Once you get that nat. point of aim, you need to mimmick the same routeen with every shot. If your spotter is not coaching you with a checklist of position and proceder then you need to coach yourself.
If you get use to coaching yourself your coach will be with you even when your all important spotter can't be. Some of us do better coaching others than we do shooting. Learning to practice what you preach can be a big help in shooting better. Most of us have bad habits that seem to haunt us. I know when one has got the best of me when the trigger breaks. That said I feel a little pride in the shot when I do all the right stuff. As with anything you don't get good at it unless you do it alot. You need to learn a regiment of procedure with a mental checklist and go through it again and again. This is every step you take when you get to the line till you leave. Focas on safety and procedure. That is why it is a shooting disapline.
|
MikeT
1 post
Feb 21, 2010
6:19 AM
|
Al,
I can not "see" a wire type aperture in the globe front sight. My favorite is a .050-.060 thick aperture. No problem seeing that in the globe. I do already use a MVA MT. Hadley rear tang sight. The larger openings work best for me, even on a bright day. Another thing you may try is to use a "shade" to block your non-aiming eye vision.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
|
Sagebrush
45 posts
Feb 21, 2010
9:47 AM
|
There are so many things to practice and improve your shooting skills, but there is one thing that I believe is always overlooked and not even realize there is a problem. That is recoil management and there are so many things that go into it. Things like using the exact same grip to cross stick position to follow thru. We could talk about each aspect extensively. When you arfe shooting long range, just the simple thing like changing your thumb position in your grip will throw youi off the target.
----------
"Just Shoot...Exercise Your Rights!"
|
